Ideas on Moving Towards Staking

I’m starting this thread so we can discuss ideas on how to move towards staking.

If FIP-2 passes (and I think it’s likely it will), it will further set the precedent that the team wants to incentivize LP staking on the FEI/TRIBE pool. And even if it doesn’t pass, I’ve come to be convinced that 50/50 FEI/TRIBE positions are healthier for the long term success of the protocol.

The current movement in the tribe of price reflects that some 100/0 FEI/TRIBE bags are already buying tribe in order to stake. I think for them that’s the right solution. At the moment, TRIBE is relatively cheap.

It’s more difficult to know what to do if you have a 0/100 FEI/TRIBE bags. I’m lucky enough that my bag is small, and in a couple of weeks/months I’ll be able to afford to buy enough FEI to stake all my TRIBE. But some people with larger bags will need more elaborate solutions.

Please share your ideas!

A couple of things to keep in mind.

  • The extra staking rewards from FIP-2 will be released over two years, so solutions don’t need to be extremely time sensitive.

  • Some people’s bags might be too small to justify a $200 transaction fee for a FEI loan.

  • Sharing your clever solutions is probably in your best interest: the more content the community is after FIP-2, the less likely it is that we’ll continue to see calls for the dissolution of FEI.

I wish I had some interesting solutions to share, but I’m new to the space and so my ingenuity is stunted by my tremendous ignorance!


Thank you for posting. I raised this concern in another thread… seeing as 100% TRIBE holders will have a lot of say in passing the proposal, we need to find a solution that makes sense for them. Currently, the extra 100mm of tokens aren’t easily accessible to this group without getting absolutely gutted on a conversion of 50% TRIBE to FEI.

Some ideas…

  1. Allow single-sided staking of both tokens and match FEI holders with TRIBE holders (this was suggested by @Georgeh ) - to contribute to the existing LP
  2. Allow single-sided TRIBE staking in a separate LP - rewards could be (TRIBE, FEI purchased with TRIBE from the DAO treasury allotment, access to exclusive contracts to purchase FEI at a slight discount)
  3. Airdrop of TRIBE to genesis pre-swap wallets with a significant lock-up period… only way to preempt the lock-up is to swap for FEI (at a premium - perhaps $1.05 - which will flow into PCV)

Just thinking out loud here…trying to get creative to think through this in a way that not only incentivizes TRIBE holders to get on board with this FIP-2, but simultaneously drives long-term demand for FEI.

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I don’t think we should count on solutions that require the team’s action. I personally want to see the team focus on a path forward for the protocol. They need to work on reweights, direct incentives, and integrations. That’s the only work that will really cause TRIBE to appreciate. At the moment I just want to think of actions we could each take to curb our short term losses.

I explained elsewhere why I think that moving towards FEI/TRIBE LP staking is a better position for everyone. Here’s a quote:

So why do I think that staking rewards strengthen this proposal? After all, my bag is 0/100 FEI/TRIBE!

It comes down to a flaw in the protocol’s design that only really came to light during the debates over FIP-1. The primary incentive of 0/100 FEI/TRIBE bags is to grow the PCV. Keeping FEI pegged at $1 is only one way to achieve this. Needless to say, this is an undesirable quality for a token that’s meant to make decisions that keep FEI pegged at $1. At the moment, the only barrier to the FEI protocol becoming a hedge fund that completely disregards FEI’s peg is the team’s conscience.

So yes, this proposal is devastating for 0/100 FEI/TRIBE bags. But that’s exactly what the protocol needs. For if a large proportion of bags were 50/50 FEI/TRIBE, then governance’s incentives would be more aligned with the stability of the peg. That would allow us to envision a future where the team doesn’t have to bias votes just to have some hope that the right proposals will pass.

Because of this, I expect we’ll see more and more proposals that favor 100/0 and 50/50 FEI/TRIBE bags and disregard, or even punish, 0/100 FEI/TRIBE bags. For those of us that hold 0/100 FEI/TRIBE bags, we have two options: (1) we can complain to our hearts content and follow the toxic example that 100/0 FEI/TRIBE bags have set over the last couple of weeks, ride the precedent that the team is labile to our shortsighted feelings and threats, bring about an indefinite gridlock that punishes everyone, divides us further, and all but guarantees feilure; or (2) we can accept our predicament, realize that the future of effective governance is in the hands of stakers, and figure out how to minimize our losses as we shift our bags towards 50/50 FEI/TRIBE.

Hmm I’m not sure I’m following. What type of responses were you seeking when you posted to “discuss ideas on how to move towards staking.”? I think the only options we really have that “don’t require the teams actions” are to buy or to sell.

I agree that the team should be working to fix the protocol ASAP, and if it can’t be fixed then cash out FEI holders and give TRIBE holders option to cash out or move to become governors of a crypto investment vehicle. In my opinion, these FIPs are short-sighted, bow-to-the-social-media-mob band-aids that do little more than improve aesthetics temporarily. I’d go as far as to say that the team shouldn’t be wasting a single minute looking at these community discussion boards until they have consulted with the requisite mathematicians and economists to arrive at a YES or NO, this is salvageable or this is not salvageable.

My concern is that this cannot be salvaged to function close to as advertised, and FIP-2 only drains PCV without any guarantee of fixing what is broken. I would like to get to that yes or no first. If it’s yes, great- proceed as scheduled, no PCV draining band-aids needed. If no, then the FIP vote should be related to what the community seeks to transition this project and its ETH value to (because at the moment the code is worthless in the public eye, all we have is ETH value).

One example of what i had in mind has already been covered elsewhere: taking out FEI loans collateralized by Tribe from Rari. Though that’s something that’s too expensive for me, it’s the sort of idea I would never come up with. Before I saw that I thought the only option was to sell TRIBE and/or buy FEI. I want to hear other ideas like that!

I think there’s a good case to be made in favor of the point that it will be easier to work on improving the protocol once it’s been relieved of the artificial sell pressure that’s been pestering every the day stem since genesis. I’m of the opinion that the sell pressure isn’t catastrophic. I think there’s a good chance that the protocol will be a success regardless of this sell pressure. But I thinks this is a moot point by now. It looks like releasing sell pressure is a popular opinion. And it’s likely about to pass. The silver lining is it gives us a chance to increase our share of TRIBE. So now I’m concerned with how I can best take advantage of that opportunity.

Hi guys,

Here are some stats from my dataset shared in this thread (snapshot on 2021-04-12), that may inform this discussion :

Total TRIBE holding
   1-1k   TRIBE :  1 922 879
   1-10k  TRIBE : 12 313 260
  10-100k TRIBE : 29 810 473
 100-500k TRIBE : 28 818 034
500k-3M   TRIBE : 33 706 930
   3M+    TRIBE : 34 711 172
Average FEI held per TRIBE
   1-1k   TRIBE : 2.28
   1-10k  TRIBE : 1.42
  10-100k TRIBE : 2.03
 100-500k TRIBE : 1.77
500k-3M   TRIBE : 1.20
   3M+    TRIBE : 0.98

It looks like, on average, TRIBE holders also have some FEI, so this does not seem to be true :

Second point :

The distribution is linearly decreasing so most of the TRIBE rewards will be distributed early, I think the solutions need to be a bit “time sensitive”. If it takes 6 months to put in place, over 40% of the staking rewards will be gone already.

Put visually :

As you said @Inaniel :

I changed my mind about that, too, and the staking rewards look good to me as they are :slightly_smiling_face: