Thank you for contributing to the debate, I think it is necessary to comply with retail first as was discussed initially, they are the most affected group. And build on the foundation of trust.
This is very important. I am one of the users affected and even when the funds were pooled via smart contracts (strategies on Babylon), we must receive equal treatment as retail users.
I am a user through babylon as well, in the pooled contracts. It is important for all of us individuals to be treated as individuals in this situation. Thank you for your help.
We need some clarification on some stuff.
How much $TRIBE would be eligible to receive reimbursement? Do people that front run the proposal get to receive payment? If so why are you enabling Insider Trading?
If Fei Labs is no longer involved does that mean they will not be delegating via their team and their company to swing the vote?
We need a firm time frame. I believe that we should do it on a vote basis. Any accounts that vote (against or in favor) on the proposal should receive 2/3rd on a per token basis of the PCV compared to the remaining tokens that did not vote. This will protect retail. THIS WOULD ALSO APPLY FOR RARI HACK HOLDERS AND EASILY MAKE THE DEBT DISAPPEAR.
That is basically it. Insider trading shouldn’t be supported and clarity is needed. If it is intentionally vague, that could just mean you guys are doing it purposefully to front run it…
There are some clear issues with this proposal:
The focus should be on the liability/creditors first then the equity/token holders. The execution should be done in stages, then the snapshot of TRIBE holdings should be given a specific date, 24 hours to 7 days in the past to compensate actual TRIBE holders that lost value from holding the token.
FEI holders: FEI holders should be given a specific timeframe to redeem FEI for DAI, after the timeframe, depending how much FEI is still locked in LP (e.g. Frax Finance etc.) the equivalent amount of DAI should be reserved for locked LP.
Fuse hack victim: If protocol FEI is not redeemable for backing, it is clear that the DAO can repay Fuse hack victims fully. This should be the priority before talking about distribution to TRIBE holders. The victims did not opt to receive equity/TRIBE tokens, they should be compensated first in whatever they lost, the proposal was passed to compensate the victim, the second proposal against compensation was influenced by the team.
- The next step is to wind down partnerships. Distributing tokens acquired through partnership is not optimal for partner DAOs for obvious reasons (incentive misalignment, illiquidity of partnership DAO LPs), there are also proposals passed on winding down partnerships, which should be executed first before this proposal.
- TRIBE holders
- Any remaining assets can then be distributed to TRIBE holders. The snapshot of TRIBE holders should be a date in the past, for example, to the point before the price of TRIBE started going up minus any address that sold between the snapshot date and distribution date. Anything the DAO is able to recoup from the hack in the future can be distributed to TRIBE holders in the snapshot. There are transactions of large buys before this proposal being posted in a down market, it does not seem right.
There are good reasons why creditors > equity holders in tradfi and this principle should be followed in this situation to make all stakeholders whole. Equity/token holders should be the risk bearer of the hack theoretically since they get any potential upside of Fei/Rari doing well. Fundamentally, LPs (Fei/Rari users) would have been confident about the DAO’s due diligence on contracts and insuring products/services provided by the DAO in the absence of third party insurers.
Alternatively, the DAO compensates hack victims with protocol owned FEI redeemable for DAI, then Fei Labs can still step down, the community takes control over the DAO.
Why does this proposal explicitly separate the dissolution of the treasury and the hack repayment.
It needs to be revised and more numbers need to be given for clarity.
It is not clear that “hack victims” are “Creditors”
Hack victims lost assets because they took risks. This does not represent a debt. While it may end up being repaid, I think it’s important to point out that this is not in the same class as FEI holders, for example.
Any repayment would need to pass the DAO, which did not happen last time it came up.
Why do you think they are not creditors? Using a DeFi product should not present significant risks to the end users. The victims take risks - liquidation risk, illiquidity risk etc., not risk of poor due diligence. No one is going to use the product/service being offered if users lost confidence in the DAO not compensating the hack victims, and then it is just a death spiral for the DAO.
While I am not personally affected by the hack, I was involved in other protocols that acted in good faith after significant risk events, e.g. InsurAce commitment to make their LPs whole after paying out UST depegs, Scream directs future protocol revenue to victims. Compensation should be committed to the hack victims even if over a longer timeframe, but in this case, the DAO can clearly afford to pay them out.
The DAO could have afforded to pay them out when it was voted on too-- however they voted against it.
I think those who took risks by using Fuse accepted that, in the event of an exploit, they may lose their money. There should be no expectation of repayment. The same is true when you use Aave, Compound, Maker, and whatever other lending protocol. Also, given that the DAO is dissolving, it makes far less sense to repay hack victims for future prospects or “good will”. I suppose we’ll see how the DAO feels this time around when it comes up for a vote.
Aave literally has an insurance fund…
@FeiLabs and @JackLongarzo - can you please provide the projected calculations behind the proposal? It is going to be near impossible for the community to reason about the proposal without a shared understanding of the financial implications for all stakeholders. I’ve attempted high level calculations myself and the recovery figures don’t make sense.
Here is a quick updated overview shared from a friend (original credit to DCF_god):
The left side shows the net intrinsic value of TRIBE as proposed (using 57M TRIBE), the right side shows the intrinsic value after a full recovery for hack victims from PCV. The price of TRIBE was approximately $0.144 before any “odd” price action ahead of the public release of the proposal. This calculation shows that all FEI users and hack victims could be made whole and each TRIBE would still be redeemed for a 10% premium to the pre-annoucement market price.
Instead the proposal suggests compensating hack victims with an arbitrary amount of TRIBE which feels like a backhanded way of saying let’s just repay approximately 28% of the hack amount so that we can keep the rest. Furthermore, the 28% is unevenly split so that some DAO’s are 100% compensated while others receive as little as 3%. Then you want to pocket the rest and just go on to your next venture? Do you think it will be that simple? Many of the large TRIBE voting positions are known and the Tribal Council are known individuals. Why would you want to leave yourself this liability when it would be very straightforward to make everyone whole. If it weren’t for the Council’s previous veto the hack victims would already be repaid and this would be a much simpler dissolution. We risk a repeat of that situation where PCV drops as the market falls and it’s a shame because it will then be used as an excuse for why repayment can’t happen (the sad comedy is if PCV pumps into the merge afterwards).
I’ve been in this industry since the early days of Ethereum and this feels so greedy to me. You use terms like “Tribe” and try to harness the goodwill and positive sum attitude of Ethereum and yet here we are. Think about your reputations going forward - either way Fei is done. You have a chance to make everyone whole, move on cleanly to your next thing and still have $65m leftover for TRIBE holders (which was approximately the market cap of TRIBE before the announcement). Why not take it? Is an extra 50% really worth it?
The snapshot would have passed to repay victims if without the influence of the team. You are suggesting TRIBE holders should be exposed to the upside only, and no downside from any vulnerability of the products. This set a bad precedent for DeFi as a whole, how do you expect people to adopt DeFi when it is so risky/unsafe?
Aave stakers get slashed if the smart contract gets exploited - you can find it under the Shortfall Event section, it’s called the Safety Module. IMO dissolving or not should not change the answer to whether the hack victims need to be paid out. In fact I don’t think Tribe should dissolve just solely because Fei Labs want to step down. The DAO looks to be viable even after paying out the hack victims, dissolving should be the final solution.
Absolutely. It seems like a deliberate attempt to squeeze more money.
.25 rfv is dependent on vested being burned.
I think that would just be fair.
@FeiLabs however you slice the cake, the PCV is more than enough to make everyone affected whole plus secure an ample return for $TRIBE-holders. Anything short of a complete reimbursement at this point can only be described as complete cronyism and greed
I’m on both sides of this equation, and I have zero interest in pocketing some extra $$ in a zero-sum game at the expense of affected retail users
Your unrelenting lack of empathy continues to astound me. I - as a former FEI enthusiast - am quite ashamed of being part of what has revealed itself to be nothing more than a money-grabbing “TRIBE” of hypocrites. If you want to salvage what little community, dignity and reputation that is left I strongly advise some long-term thinking
In that spirit you might want to have a read-up on short-termism → ticking all the milestones
Focus on the ‘trust’ instead of the ‘less’ in ‘trustless’, and avoid being a scar-tissue reminder for many that FEI was just another greedy DAO in web3 sheep’s clothing
I quit the policy pool after being affected. Is there a snapshot that can help me recover the loss?
Will 22,000 ETH convert to DAI before merge? What If 22,000 ETH receive candies like $ethpow something. Should take this into consideration.
I am one of the Babylon Finance users, I lost 6 figures combined in The Garden Of Eth and Stable Garden. We should imo be treated as individual users.
TRIBE users already voted to reimburse all hacked victims in the original vote, however result was ignored and a “new vote” was issued see https://twitter.com/samkazemian/status/1560922664943775745?s=20&t=KgFJE-2ex65nYEgxgvGxtg