non trivial hit of 30-40M is on top of 40M hit the Fei protocol took itself, and a lot of other hits it seems that we are finding out about. the path proposed is not in the best interest of the Tribe DAO
i guess in my mind surviving to fight another day is more meaningful than being extinct with pride/reputation in tact
Without reimbursement, TRIBE DAO is not going to survive to fight another day. Not only will the DAO be screwing over the protocol’s users and partners, potentially losing said partnerships and damaging FEI in the process, but you can also expect lawsuits to follow.
I am not unbiased, all of my funds are in Fuse so we will not agree on the reimbursement but I do wholly agree that the merger with Rari was unfortunate and it’s fucked up that Rari’s technical team all left after the merger leaving TRIBE DAO holding the bag. I think clawing back compensation and even suing those guys is called for. What should have happened though is that the clawback proposal should have been made months ago, alerting everyone of the issues and any lack of faith in Fuse. All of the us and the projects using fuse would have withdrawn their funds and no one would be out 80M dollars.
TRIBE DAO has enough funds in PCV to cover the reimbursement and continue to do well, no hobbling required. In fact, if the reimbursement had happened a month ago when it should have, we would be in an even better financial situation.
The greatest risk to Fei depeg is not repayment of the hack. It’s been the gross overweight of maintaining primarily eth exposure in the treasury for the past 6 months (6 weeks since the hack). Burning all protocol relations and user trust in an effort to protect PCV seems like an irrational move motivated by lack of treasury foresight management.
The treasury and protocol will be fine as long as the treasury actually gets re-balanced into primarily stablecoins.
This means selling ether.
Whether or not the optics of the Fei+Rari merger have been beneficial for Fei in general is separate issue and one the tribe conclusively voted for when the tokens merged.
including @espria
both of you seem to have great insights in the situation, and what should be done with respect to PCV management, future of Fuse, and Tribe DAO. I hope this translates into a more active long term community participation
your arguments are a bit subjective, optimistic, but still not based on concrete examples and figures. its likely that a repayment of the hack balance from FEI’s PCV will have a very adverse impact on its peg, and possibly initiate a bank run if FEI becomes under-collateralized
some clarity on my position, we should continue to work towards recovery of the funds and ways to minimize the impact of the hack on Fei and everyone else included, however it should not be now or ever tied to FEI’s PCV
how about a recovery plan based on the size of the hack impact. you could be recovered an agreed portion of the impact in 3 months, 12 months, 24 months, or 36 months. this would give Tribe DAO breathing room to generate revenues and find ways to thrive with its partners and users
i find the threats of lawsuits in defi distasteful and the overall concept disgraceful, but not everyone agrees, which should be a consideration
I am generally against lawsuits, and I was in this case, until this news about the abdication of the Rari team immediately after the merger was dropped on us in the middle of discussing the reimbursement. The FEI core team has had a lot of issues with transparency, but this to me has become grounds for a lawsuit as I think the only reason it was done now is to influence the upcoming vote, and I find that egregious. The team should have announced what happened immediately and moved for the clawback. That it wasn’t done months ago, is a serious failure in leadership. That it was done now is nothing short of manipulative.
I don’t follow when you say that our arguments are not based on concrete figures. TRIBE DAO has at the moment $342.6M in PCV, much of it in ETH. Selling $30M in ETH and reimbursing the Fuse hack will reduce the PCV to $312.6M, more than enough to maintain the FEI peg. A bank run is unlikely as fuse is down.
Time is not our friend in this situation.
There are 5K ETH reduced, between the first spreadsheet and the latest updated one.
But no DAI increased, neither Circulating FEI decreasing, did we miss something?
my screenshot was a bit off but the sheet is correct, circulating fei have decreased (ETH psm redemptions happened)
What you are prescribing is a classic case of privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. The Tribe was more than happy to take the 10% cut of this “flawed protocol” when it was kicking and profitable in the crypto space. Rari and Fei are part of the same organization, and managed by the same team now. Refusing to face the responsibility for the hack would fare very bad for the organization, and its members, as many of them (logically) were invested in Rari’s pools.
If this frame of mind, which consist on discounting the liabilities to focus on the assets, what would be next? How would you even think of holding FEI if you knew that the DAO wouldn’t necessarily reimburse its fair value in case of a problem? Stables’s real value is built on trust, which takes a long time to build and is easy to destroy.
Also, on the topic of “distasteful” legal action, from what I’ve seen IRL, it won’t discourage any action. Only the probability of winning * the potential gains vs the legal costs are taken into account. Given the amounts at stake, and the general hostility of the US regulatory framework against Defi, I’m not sure the Tribe wants to take the risk of knowing if the disclaimer content was legal or not. Ask any lawyer, a bad arrangement is always better than a good court case (on paper).
Hence, the long-term interest of the whole organization is clearly better served by a reimbursement, which will increase trust in the protocol, retain users (which are harder and more expensive to get as competition increases) and allow everyone to move on. The snapshot vote was clearly in favor of making the community whole, which is the path forward everyone should be working on right now instead of discussing the best way of shooting ourselves in the foot.
By not repaying the hack at this point the Tribe is sticking users and partner protocols with their poor treasury management.
The Tribe spent 6 weeks arguing about how to spend PCV as it marked down 50%. This was purely based off incompetency and lack of action, A completely preventable situation which was extremely easy to see coming.
The only person who said anything was Eswak and the even then the Tribe didn’t favor that post. It’s clear the treasury was always headed in this direction with current management, Now by not repaying the hack you’re destroying the future of tribe with lawsuits, insolvency surely, Not to mention even if you do survive that now Fei’s name is stained permanently and all protocol relations are severed.
Not to mention users repaid loans after the initial snapshot due to lack of communication of how formal governance works.
I don’t see why we should stick victims with our incompetency, It’s clearly an internal problem that the hack just highlighted when it put eyes on treasury PCV health.
Even if Rari didn’t get hacked the tribe would be in the exact same position liquidating the same assets, at the same prices. If not waiting even later due to lack of any urgency from the community urging them to secure the PCV.
TIP-112 has been submitted and voting is now live.
I am a member of the Frax community active in governance. We’ve had some great collaboration between Fei and Frax and hope to continue it well into the future. This market volatility is temporary but we’re both building for the long term.
I understand this is a difficult situation and would love to find a positive outcome for everyone involved. On the Frax side, one idea we’ve had if the proposal passes is to use half the proceeds to purchase FEI and pair it with the other half in the FRAXBP to create a protocol owned Curve pool for the pair. This would be a win / win for both projects and directly help FEI’s peg by creating deeper dollar liquidity. If the point of Fei’s PCV is to protect FEI’s peg, all of the PCV that funds the repayment would go directly to this goal. It would essentially create a FEI-FRAX PSM. I am confident that we can follow through on our side if you follow through on yours.
I understand how significant collateral is to Fei. We want to cooperate to ensure that the repayment will not endanger Fei in any way. If you pass the proposal, I am confident that the repayment can be coordinated in a way that will not put Fei at risk. Repayment from the proposal does not necessarily need to be all at once and could take place over time; the important aspect of this proposal is that we’re moving forward together.
Please consider the long term implications of this decision. If the major concern about the proposal is that it could jeopardize Fei’s solvency, let’s execute this proposal in a way that addresses those concerns. Deploying the repayment as FEI-FRAX liquidity would use 100% of Frax’s proceeds to strengthen FEI’s peg. It would be a highly effective use of PCV to FEI’s benefit. This does not need to be an either/or situation.
Fei / Tribe has earned a lot of respect and admiration for navigating difficult situations since launch. We’d love to work with you to find a positive outcome here to keep building towards the long term success of both communities.
Hi
Could you please explain if I had my dai on Rari Capital during Hack attract,can I expect that I will get my money back after voting ?
Thanks @metalface for this post and yes, we spoke before about it and want to say that I personally heavily endorse what you’re saying. We will be more than happy to expedite this immediately after (if) the vote passes so that we can work with FEI/TRIBE/Fuse to rebuild with them by pushing to deploy the repaid FRAX amount as FRAX-FEI POL on Curve to further strengthen FEI’s peg and liquidity depth as a gesture of camaraderie. We will keep this POL there indefinitely for as long as the FEI team requests it remain on Curve. I’ve also publicly made that commitment on Twitter as well the other day. We will not just take the funds and make this a hit to FEI’s PCV. That is a reasonable concern in these times and we will return the value right back to FEI/TRIBE for their high integrity action.
I see that voting on this proposal on Tally is extremely divided even in the internal FEI team which is disappointing, but I’m hopeful that enough members of the community and core/extended FEI/TRIBE team can see our genuineness here to immediately put the repaid funds to good use for FEI which is positive value overall. We’ve always been here early on and with good intentions. FRAX has been the largest FEI/TRIBE/Fuse supporters+users. We’re also the largest protocol affected here and still would love to be continued supporters through all of this. Our actions speak for themselves and hopefully we can see that gesture returned in good faith. 
Obligatory “let’s get that POL on Balancer, not curve! 
” 
Balancer was able to withdraw our affected funds a couple days ago so we don’t have a direct interest in the outcome anymore, other than I personally continue to look forward to working with Joey and everyone at Tribe in the future. I have no doubt Tribe will emerge from this and go on to build a lot of cool stuff, hopefully with Balancer’s help.
What are the next steps? In Tally the proposal ended in: QUORUM NOT REACHED. Is working on a new proposal of 0xMaki and Tetranode?
Governance is out of debate, DAO members could you please open your thoughts here.
It would be great to put these issues behind us by resolving them and clearing the way for the re-release of FUSE. The time that passes is harmful.
Buddy, they fucking run away … Next target is PCV for them
Any solution like the one by @metalface that finds a third way to both repay those impacted by the hack and protect FEI’s PCV would be ideal.
Deploying the repayment as FEI-FRAX liquidity would use 100% of Frax’s proceeds to strengthen FEI’s peg.
To that end, what about a high partial repayment of people/teams that were impacted but less than 100% (e.g., 80%)?
This would acknowledge that there was risk when using Fuse and act as one more layer of protection (e.g., 20%) for Fei’s PCV.
